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	<title>Comments for @TheKeyboard</title>
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	<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard</link>
	<description>Facebook should&#039;ve be written in unicornSchemaLang, because everyone *knows* that PHP is no good for anything, right?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:04:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Chris Hartjes</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-27099</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartjes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-27099</guid>
		<description>@Derek

In many ways, this argument is also about what is good for the developer vs. the business that is relying on the application in question.  No doubt, a finely tuned &quot;No-Framework Framework&quot; makes sense from the developer&#039;s perspective.  Who wouldn&#039;t want a finely tuned application, specific to the needs of the biz.

But it becomes very hard for additional developers to pick up a custom framework and figure out how to start contributing right away to adding value to the business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Derek</p>
<p>In many ways, this argument is also about what is good for the developer vs. the business that is relying on the application in question.  No doubt, a finely tuned &#8220;No-Framework Framework&#8221; makes sense from the developer&#8217;s perspective.  Who wouldn&#8217;t want a finely tuned application, specific to the needs of the biz.</p>
<p>But it becomes very hard for additional developers to pick up a custom framework and figure out how to start contributing right away to adding value to the business.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Derek Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-27055</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-27055</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of the day Rasmus posted his famous &quot;no framework framework&quot;. We all saw it. Kind of wrote it off. Came back to it. Thought about it. Loved it. THEN decided it wasn&#039;t quite right for us... but we needed to go through those phases of evaluation &amp; synthesis to come to that decision. 

So many people just compare feature bullets, or just use whatever their friend recommends. It&#039;s not about that. it&#039;s about what&#039;s right for you at this point in your personal development, for this particular project, taking into account what resources you have available right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of the day Rasmus posted his famous &#8220;no framework framework&#8221;. We all saw it. Kind of wrote it off. Came back to it. Thought about it. Loved it. THEN decided it wasn&#8217;t quite right for us&#8230; but we needed to go through those phases of evaluation &amp; synthesis to come to that decision. </p>
<p>So many people just compare feature bullets, or just use whatever their friend recommends. It&#8217;s not about that. it&#8217;s about what&#8217;s right for you at this point in your personal development, for this particular project, taking into account what resources you have available right now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson by Chris Hartjes&#8217; Blog: Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson &#124; PHP</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/29/snakes-and-elephants-playing-nice-together-phpunit-and-py-test-with-hudson/comment-page-1/#comment-26960</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartjes&#8217; Blog: Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson &#124; PHP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=746#comment-26960</guid>
		<description>[...] the latest post to his blog Chris Hartjes talks about how he got python and PHP working together as a part of his testing with Hudson.   These days, it&#8217;s becoming increasingly harder to find [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the latest post to his blog Chris Hartjes talks about how he got python and PHP working together as a part of his testing with Hudson.   These days, it&#8217;s becoming increasingly harder to find [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson by Chris Hartjes&#8217; Blog: Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson &#124; Development Blog With Code Updates : Developercast.com</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/29/snakes-and-elephants-playing-nice-together-phpunit-and-py-test-with-hudson/comment-page-1/#comment-26942</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartjes&#8217; Blog: Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson &#124; Development Blog With Code Updates : Developercast.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=746#comment-26942</guid>
		<description>[...] the latest post to his blog Chris Hartjes talks about how he got python and PHP working together as a part of his testing with Hudson.   These days, it&#8217;s becoming increasingly harder to find [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the latest post to his blog Chris Hartjes talks about how he got python and PHP working together as a part of his testing with Hudson.   These days, it&#8217;s becoming increasingly harder to find [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Snakes and Elephants Playing Nice Together: PHPUnit and py.test with Hudson by randy</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/29/snakes-and-elephants-playing-nice-together-phpunit-and-py-test-with-hudson/comment-page-1/#comment-26930</link>
		<dc:creator>randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=746#comment-26930</guid>
		<description>that&#039;s some heavy-duty test-driven development!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that&#8217;s some heavy-duty test-driven development!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Chris Hartjes</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-26799</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartjes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-26799</guid>
		<description>Travis

You definitely walk a fine line when looking at projects run by the One Guy.  One the one hand, you might have someone who is really good at it and creating a brand new paradigm.  But on the other hand, if the One Guy isn&#039;t good at accepting outside help then you are screwed.

If the One Guy is into sharing, then that is good.  If they are not, stay FAR away from the project.  As far as I can tell, Node.js is gaining traction because Ryan isn&#039;t acting like a spoiled kid, unwilling to listen to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis</p>
<p>You definitely walk a fine line when looking at projects run by the One Guy.  One the one hand, you might have someone who is really good at it and creating a brand new paradigm.  But on the other hand, if the One Guy isn&#8217;t good at accepting outside help then you are screwed.</p>
<p>If the One Guy is into sharing, then that is good.  If they are not, stay FAR away from the project.  As far as I can tell, Node.js is gaining traction because Ryan isn&#8217;t acting like a spoiled kid, unwilling to listen to others.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Travis Swicegood</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-26782</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Swicegood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-26782</guid>
		<description>If you want to get a feel for what it would take to build an application using bare metal Python, I&#039;d recommend building on top of WSGI.  If nothing else, it&#039;ll give you a feeling for what Django does before your code is even executed.

Regarding lesson 2: that means you&#039;ll miss out on a lot of interesting projects.  Those &quot;one guys&quot; need help forming a community around their project to get people involved in it.  Node.js and CoffeeScript both come to mind as &quot;one guy&quot; projects that have gotten some traction and are starting to amass communities around them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to get a feel for what it would take to build an application using bare metal Python, I&#8217;d recommend building on top of WSGI.  If nothing else, it&#8217;ll give you a feeling for what Django does before your code is even executed.</p>
<p>Regarding lesson 2: that means you&#8217;ll miss out on a lot of interesting projects.  Those &#8220;one guys&#8221; need help forming a community around their project to get people involved in it.  Node.js and CoffeeScript both come to mind as &#8220;one guy&#8221; projects that have gotten some traction and are starting to amass communities around them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Chris Hartjes</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-26776</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hartjes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-26776</guid>
		<description>MWOP

I think programmers (and I am not alone having gone through this) are seduced by tools that promise them the ability to rapidly build something with minimal code.  Given that message, it&#039;s easy to see why people pick the framework instead of the language.

I mean, I cannot be alone remembering what it was like to build web apps before all these frameworks came along.  My apps were all of the page-controller-driven type, with the action it performed based on what was passed in as a parameter.  Yes, I did check to make sure it was a valid action too. Ah, the good old days. ;)

Given how many frameworks exist for the various scripting languages, I totally get why people do not learn the language first, then pick a framework that fits their needs.  It&#039;s too easy to grab a framework and start coding, without really understanding what you&#039;re doing.  

Add in cutting-and-pasting of code samples found via search engines and you&#039;ve got a semi-working, semi-incomprehensible code base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MWOP</p>
<p>I think programmers (and I am not alone having gone through this) are seduced by tools that promise them the ability to rapidly build something with minimal code.  Given that message, it&#8217;s easy to see why people pick the framework instead of the language.</p>
<p>I mean, I cannot be alone remembering what it was like to build web apps before all these frameworks came along.  My apps were all of the page-controller-driven type, with the action it performed based on what was passed in as a parameter.  Yes, I did check to make sure it was a valid action too. Ah, the good old days. <img src='http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Given how many frameworks exist for the various scripting languages, I totally get why people do not learn the language first, then pick a framework that fits their needs.  It&#8217;s too easy to grab a framework and start coding, without really understanding what you&#8217;re doing.  </p>
<p>Add in cutting-and-pasting of code samples found via search engines and you&#8217;ve got a semi-working, semi-incomprehensible code base.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Lessons Learned by Matthew Weier O'Phinney</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/07/21/coding-lessons-learned/comment-page-1/#comment-26774</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Weier O'Phinney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=738#comment-26774</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been fascinating watching your various struggles with different frameworks, and your insight in this post is quite refreshing.

On the ZF mailing lists, it&#039;s not uncommon to find questions asked that are clearly the result of a lack of fundamental PHP knowledge. This always surprises me -- it&#039;s as if somebody came to a construction site and wanted to start doing framing without ever having picked up a hammer before. And yet, for many, the first question they ask when starting a language is, &quot;What framework should I learn?&quot;

Looking forward to reading your next adventures in coding!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been fascinating watching your various struggles with different frameworks, and your insight in this post is quite refreshing.</p>
<p>On the ZF mailing lists, it&#8217;s not uncommon to find questions asked that are clearly the result of a lack of fundamental PHP knowledge. This always surprises me &#8212; it&#8217;s as if somebody came to a construction site and wanted to start doing framing without ever having picked up a hammer before. And yet, for many, the first question they ask when starting a language is, &#8220;What framework should I learn?&#8221;</p>
<p>Looking forward to reading your next adventures in coding!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fun with custom Zend_Views by ??????? &#187; [Web] ????</title>
		<link>http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/2010/06/24/fun-with-custom-zend_views/comment-page-1/#comment-26278</link>
		<dc:creator>??????? &#187; [Web] ????</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard/?p=733#comment-26278</guid>
		<description>[...] Fun with custom Zend_Views [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fun with custom Zend_Views [...]</p>
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