So You are like that you said…

“Finally, when someone comes along and tries to tell me how to do things, I say fuck them. What makes you think you know better than me?”

… why the fuckers guys noobs of CakePHP try to do it over and over again, come on, a good PHP developer do not take care of that, it’s a matter when you’re getting a project in your own best way to do it…

You should use whatever you want , a good developer do it…

So, please Mariano… So do fuck you

Well, it has a lot to do with programming style as well. Some programmers have their favourite libraries for a lot of things, and loosely-formatted frameworks let you easily incorporate those.

Personally, I find that when I use Code Igniter vs. Cake, I get annoyed because I find myself writing code that already exists in Cake. I guess that’s the peril of trying to write Cake-style code in a non-Cake framework.

Nice argument, finally a true voice on the whole ‘you call that MVC? checkout MY framework… tháts MVC’-bullshit..

Good article..

LOL… most insightful comment of the post. Thanks.

I guess it all comes down to how much you care that a framework follows a MVC(which it claims to follow). Often times people don’t care because they don’t know they should. I am sure a huge percentage of the popular PHP frameworks users are thinking “Well these guys know what they are doing”, “It works better than my other code” and blindly follow whatever new changes end up in the repo.

The purpose of MVC is to encapsulate to separate. If you start to smudge the lines (mixing data with interface, etc…) you lose the advantages of MVC. So I think Mike is right screaming passionately to get peoples attention. Someone needs to.

Let me first introduce myself. My name is Jean-Philippe Déry, I’m 24, from Canada and I’ve been a web developer since 2000. I’ve been using Mojavi and now, all my projects are made using Agavi. I’ve never regretted this choice.

Now on the topic. Mike, even if all the remarks he made seemed impolite or even rude, he raised an important issue. Saying that most frameworks are broken beyond repair is still exaggerated but from a MVC point of view, it’s true. We are all web developer right ? Experience should have taught one (of many) things that stays true with web development and it is his constant evolution. Things changes, and they changes fast. One day we use a database, the other day XML files and the next day web services. Since we can’t predict what’s the next thing to happen, it would be right to at least make some code that will evolve with the next big thing without rewriting the whole application over and over.

Using models properly, which encapsulate the data access layer, from what I’ve been taught, really help (thanks to Mike who spent the time to explain me how I can write better code). Does it means it will take more time to develop ? It may takes more time when you’re writing from scratch, but you won’t need to rewrite the whole thing when the next big thing will happen. This makes sense to me.

If any of this makes sense to you I suggest you ask the developer of your chosen framework to make it more MVC, not because Mike said so but because in the future you don’t want to rewrite applications when the new trend hits.

Thanks

That’s an interesting question, but my objection to his comments wasn’t based on me using CakePHP. My objection is based on the fact that the vast majority of people who use frameworks with a less-than-perfect implementation of MVC don’t care that it’s not perfect.

You should know by now that there’s no perfect way to do things, just ways that work better than others. And at the end of the day, if after all these years Agavi sounds more like an obscure candy bar brand than it is a PHP framework it is probably because it’s not helpful for a lot of PHP developers. Shape it as an “elite” framework, but the truth is all these rant come because you hate the fact that Agavi is not widely spread.

Finally, when someone comes along and tries to tell me how to do things, I say fuck them. What makes you think you know better than me?